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Started by Peter at 12-28-2006 8:20 AM. Topic has 7 replies.

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   12-28-2006, 8:20 AM
Peter is not online. Last active: 4/5/2009 10:49:53 PM Peter



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Joined on 10-27-2006
Calgary, Canada
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The Clock
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Has anyone figured out the properties of the clock? I may be on to something akin to the new airbrake technique, but I need to understand the clock better. As far as I can see it, the clock:

gets insanely faster when you either have collected 99 chips or reached 5000 pts as Claris / Elliot (anyone know which?)

disappears for a while if, when you knock it over, it lands 'on its head'. Can anyone confirm that? What makes the clock disappear sometimes?
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   12-28-2006, 10:20 AM
gsk is not online. Last active: 3/29/2010 8:43:55 AM gsk



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Joined on 02-08-2006
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Re: The Clock
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oh, I thought that it just gets faster as you move through the mares, so its slow during mare1, and really fast during mare4

If you knock it past the purple edge of the dreams ie into the empty space after it, the clock will disappear for a while and reappear near the palace I think, making its way to you after that.

By the way, the dream does end if you spend too long as the kids, about 15/20 mins I think, regardless of whether the clock gets you.

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   12-28-2006, 4:02 PM
Peter is not online. Last active: 4/5/2009 10:49:53 PM Peter



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Re: The Clock
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Interesting! Have you managed to stay a kid for that long, and the dream ended all of a sudden? This is very interesting...
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   12-28-2006, 6:49 PM
tabitha is not online. Last active: 1/5/2008 9:16:03 AM tabitha



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Joined on 01-22-2006
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Re: The Clock
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I think Lance managed to find the 15 minute time limit while working on a kind of glitch he found in splash garden. Also as far as the clock mechanics go, the thing never seemed as solid as the rest of the game, kind of like the programmers didnt spend enough time on it. Its pretty erratic. I have found Jumping directly at it will get rid of it for a certain amount of time. Other than that not much info really.

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   01-14-2007, 6:40 AM
Peter is not online. Last active: 4/5/2009 10:49:53 PM Peter



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Re: The Clock
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Gather 'round, my pretties, and I shall spin you a tale.

When playing, we all try to collect 20 chips as the kids and then go for the Capture, to earn as much Bonus Time and to have a good 'Capture Bonus'. So, when messing around in Frozen Bell, I started messing around as Elliot, trying to see if it was possible to collect more points as Elliot than you would doing the traditional 'grab 20 chips - run to NiGHTS - fly like heaven' method.

What I found was that this doesn't work, because once you pick up a chip or jump through a ring, it is gone until you become NiGHTS, which means there is a finite amount of points to grab. Also, the Clock chases you and gets progressively faster and harder to dodge.

On a great normal run in Frozen Bell, I can get my 17 chips as Elliot (and collect 710 pts) before turning into NiGHTS, and grabbing the last 4 on a mad dash into Capture. The dash earns me another 550 pts. Then I break Capture and receive 10300 bonus points. That's a total of 11560 points before Bonus Time. Which means to make it worthwhile as Elliot, I would have to collect at least as much, since I would get no bonus for breaking Capture in a decent amount of time.

I ran around the whole level several times but could never get even close to 11 and a half k; either the Clock (hereinafter referred to as The Enemy) got me or I simply used up all the chips / rings.

However, all this time I would watch the Enemy, observe his movements. I had to see what makes him tick (har har). I had to think like the clock. I had to be the clock.

Then something really weird happened. I went down the slope where you have the 10 chips you get at the beginning of a normal run (where you can get a 9 link as Elliot) and I got a 10 link! So, I left, and came back later, and presto! The Chips had respawned. Maybe y'all knew this happened, but I did not.

Time for plotting. This gave me a chance to Beat the Clock! But, even if you get a link of 9 each time, you still never get enough points to beat 11500. So I thought about it some more. How did I get a 10 link?

The key: If you run by the trees and, as I call it, 'shake the branches,' the chips fall out and lay there, at the foot of the tree. If you leave the area and return, the 2 chips will still be at the foot of the tree but there will be 2 more in the tree, for a total of 4! So, you can get 20 chips in one pass (19 link) instead of 10 and a 9 link. That's a differential of 1550 points on a double-pass versus 550 on a single. OK now we are getting somewhere.

Next came figuring out how far in terms of minimum distance Elliot has to go before the chips respawn. I discovered that if you head east (assuming the Palace is North, up the slope from the bunch of trees) until you reach the top of the hill, then head back down, they will have re-spawned. Any closer and they do not. The good thing is that respawning seems to be controlled by distance rather than elapsed time, so if you do one of the super / double jumps you have have Elliot up that hill in no time, then he slides back down. The whole affair is very fast.

Now comes the clock. I do not know if what I am about to write is absolute fact but it has seemed to be fairly consistent for me. The clock appears and is very lethargic, and easy to avoid. As time passes and your score increases, the clock speeds up. You have to collect as many points as possible until it becomes too difficult to Beat the Clock.

The clock gets faster, quicker, if you knock it over. Try to avoid it for as long as possible. There will come a time you need to knock it down. When you do, try to stay within visual distance of the clock. I have found that this keeps the clock from disappearing. After a moment it gets up and starts after you again.

When it becomes too quick, knock it over and get out of the area for a short while, the clock should disappear. Then, collect what points you can but be mindful. The clock returns much faster than before. I no longer try to avoid the clock at this point; it's open war! I knock it every chance I get, all the while getting points. At some point it will disappear again. At this time I make a break for the Palace, because on its' 3rd appearance, the Clock becomes Insane. It is not only mega fast but also flies much higher than usual, making knocking it down nearly impossible.

Anyways, the only reason all this is worthwhile is because due to the Shaking of the Branches, you can amass points very quickly before the Clock becomes a real nuisance. At present I can easily make it into the palace with 14,000 points, and know that with some practice, I will be able to make 20,000. At 20,000, you are looking at a FB1 score of 125,000 or so. Plus, there may be ways of refining this strategy which I have not thought of yet.

I do not know if this can be applied in other Dreams but Spring Valley, at least, has trees whose branches you can shake.

If you have made it to the end of my novel, thank you and Congratulations!

Tab, one more site record for me please: Longest Post.

I'll be practicing Beat the Clock! to see how far I can take it. Theoretically, it could go very, very high.
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   01-14-2007, 2:26 PM
gsk is not online. Last active: 3/29/2010 8:43:55 AM gsk



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Re: The Clock
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Interesting stuff Peter. I think its a valid technique, and it would be applicable to all mare 1s using different exploits, ie switches in SG, trees in SV etc

It does however raise the question of what is allowed for site records though. Lance Way came up with a sneaky method of abusing the switches for SG4 which has been disallowed, while 'milking stars' in TS is allowed, and the recent discovery of a Time Attack in reverse strategy has resulted in a seperate score table.

The fact that there are so many chips and hidden details in the dreams that Nights can never access, maybe mare 1 should be about running around first then becoming Nights. At the moment, the general strategy is to have a balence, collecting enough chips to open the capture on teh first lap, but doing it quickly, as oppossed to scouting the dream pre mare1 to get 11k+ to make it worth while.

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   01-14-2007, 4:37 PM
Peter is not online. Last active: 4/5/2009 10:49:53 PM Peter



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Joined on 10-27-2006
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Re: The Clock
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My 2 cents: it should all be permitted. If it can be done, it should be done. Besides, it is not easy to achieve - takes patience and skill. Besides, when it comes to high scores, do you think the Japanese were picky?
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   01-30-2007, 9:04 AM
Lance Way is not online. Last active: 1/25/2007 2:48:51 AM Lance Way

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Re: The Clock
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OK, here's a "safer" variation on Peter's strat that I've worked out, and with which I've managed to net 17,000 points and survive up to the time-out. I've already posted my thoughts about this in the "permissable strategies" thread, so I'll just get straight on to the details.

Important concepts:

1. Every level contains some sort of "safe ground" where the clock can't get you, mainly because of two reasons. Firstly, the clock's beam of murdering light is only "dangerous" down near the ground: if you touch the beam sufficiently high enough, you'll just go through it. Secondly, the clock and its beam pass straight through most random level objects (in Frozen Bell, things like igloos and crystals): the clock and beam don't "climb" on them. This means that any sufficiently high level object is safe ground: if you're on one and the clock approaches you, the dangerous part of its beam will pass straight through the object underneath you. (I originally posted about this when I posted about the Splash Garden exploit ages ago, though I thought it was worth clarifying for anyone who hasn't read that.)

2. "Killing" the clock (making it disappear) gets rid of it for a lot longer than stunning it (just knocking it on the ground). Stunning it keeps it down for a few seconds at best, whereas killing it can keep it away for much longer. Most importantly, I've just today noticed that the clock seems more likely to be killed when you knock it over on a steep slope (in all likelihood the clock "being killed" might really be a glitch, but anyhow...)

The strat:

Basically, just do what Peter explained, but in addition, regularly and systematically kill the clock to keep it off your back. Currently I can get to about 7,000 points before the clock becomes too much of a hassle and I have to go kill it for the first time.

The method I've been using to kill the clock is to stand on top of the big ice crystal that's up the hill and north-east from the trees (assuming NiGHTS' palace is north), face the steep hill to the east, and let the clock crash into me. It seems to always keel over against the steep hill (no matter which direction it was moving in, weirdly), and then disappear rather than get up. You should then have enough time to get down to the trees one or more times, crank some chips out of them, get back to the crystal, wait for the clock to return, then rinse and repeat. (The crystal of course being safe ground, as I mentioned above.)

There are some subtleties, though:

Firstly, the clock "comes back" increasingly fast after you kill it. (I assume that because it moves faster and faster, it finds you faster and faster after respawning). As time goes on, you'll be able to make less runs to the trees between clock-killings, finally forcing you to make rather unprofitable single-runs (i.e. without "shaking the branches", as Peter put it) between killings if you want to stay safe.

Secondly, the clock goes ludicrously fast towards the end, and may repeatedly zoom underneath or far above where you're standing on the crystal without hitting you. If it does this, you might want to tripple-jump over to the identical crystal to the north. I've found the change of pace always seems to force the clock to go out of its rhythm and crash into you over there.

Thirdly, the clock hasn't *always* disappeared for me when I've knocked it over more or less against that hill: one time in the full sixteen-minute run, it got up. You may want to stay safely on the crystal until you're sure it's gone.

Anyhow, sorry for the ultra-long post and I hope all of that's clear. If anything isn't, fire away.
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